FIGURINES of martial arts legend Bruce Lee immediately catch my eye as I walk into Datuk Seri Azalina Othman Said’s office in the Parliament building.
The little statues, each striking a pose, lined up behind her desk are pretty much an indication of what the 52-year-old’s personal interests are.
Calling Lee her idol, Azalina, a Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department, is an avid martial arts enthusiast who works out every week with kick boxing and taekwondo.
“I do everything lah,” she tells me with a smile, further revealing that yoga and even hip hop dance classes have also been added to the list of things she does to stay active.
The Pengerang MP also proudly shows off the framed eight dan taekwondo black belt certificate she earned earlier this year from the International Taekwondo Federation that hangs on her office wall.
Admitting that being both a politician and minister in charge of legal and Parliamentary affairs is stressful, Azalina, a lawyer by profession, says she lets off some steam by working out.
“I still break planks in my taekwondo practice. I break one or two planks every week. If I don’t break a plank or beat my instructor, I always tell my staff that someone will get beaten up in Parliament instead! So they tell me, ‘Go for your class’,” she says with a laugh.
Being the country’s minister in charge of legal affairs is no laughing matter, though, and Azalina becomes more serious as she reveals that the Government is working on several proposed laws, including amendments to the Bankruptcy Act 1967 and the introduction of the much anticipated Child Sexual Crimes Bill.
“We are looking into the proposed penalties for child sexual grooming but they cannot be announced at this point,” she says of the Bill which will address a wide range of issues, including child pornography, child sexual harassment and others.
The proposal to set up a special court to deal with such cases is also being mulled.
“The faster the Bill can be tabled, the better. But I have to present it to the Cabinet first. I hope both Opposition and Barisan Nasional MPs will support it because it is about children,” she says.
The following is a Q&A Sunday Star had with Azalina.
You were appointed minister in charge of legal affairs in July. How do you feel about your role so far?
I was called to the Bar in 1989. I was a litigation lawyer and went to both syariah and civil court. Since I’m a lawyer, it was more comfortable becoming the minister in charge of legal affairs. It is like my own backyard. This is what I have been doing professionally for so many years.
I graduated from Universiti Malaya (UM) in 1988, did my Master’s degree in London in 1990 and came back in 1991. I continued to practise law till I became a minister in 2004.
Is law your passion?
It has always been so. When I had an operation when I was small, my father told the surgeon, “Can you stitch up her mouth as well? She talks too much.” My passion is also taekwondo, which I took up when I was in primary school. I was an instructor in UM, and when I was in London, that was my part-time job.
Does it help you let off steam?
I make it a point to sweat during my martial arts classes every week. I do kick boxing once a week. I do whatever I can because I’m 52 going on 53 and I feel that one of the most valuable things is your health.
Being a politician takes a toll on you. I get very disturbed about attending late night functions and we have a lot of teh tarik sessions. When you go for meetings and everybody is stressed, we start eating sugary stuff. I love it but I have to discipline myself.
If I have no events, I sleep at 10pm and wake up at 5.30am. I think my staff knows how crazy I am. I work six days a week. I try to have a day off. I dive, I ride my horse. I do everything lah.
Some say you are a fiery MP and politician. What is your response to that?
My reputation for that mannerism has always been consistent. I don’t change over time. You see what you see. That’s why my social media hashtag is “walk the talk”. I’ve been in court that way. I ran a TV show that way. That is who I am. I don’t double-tongue my way. I think my friends in the Opposition and Government know that this is Azalina.
The public wouldn’t want an MP who is soft spoken and doesn’t walk the talk. If I can’t do it, I’ll tell you, I can’t.
There has been some protest and concern over PAS president Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang’s Private Member’s Bill. What is your take on this?
For me, the whole purpose of bringing matters to the House is to get different quarters to debate on them. Every day, we get motions filed by MPs, especially the Opposition MPs. Even though Abdul Hadi’s motion was read in the Dewan Rakyat, the Government’s business must be completed first. For the Bill to come up, all Government matters must finish first. If the motion had gone to first reading, then it would have to be debated.
So you can’t say when it will be debated?
I can’t say when. But Abdul Hadi was focusing on enhancing punishment but not capital punishment. As far as the law is concerned, as of now, any capital punishment still falls under Federal laws. We have adequate Federal laws for capital punishment under the Penal Code and other laws.
For Muslims, the most aggressive punishment under the current syariah jurisdiction is whipping, not stoning or beheading. I am not fearful as de facto law minister because as far as capital punishment is concerned, we still have the civil law. I don’t see it going in that direction.
Is there a consensus among Barisan MPs about this?
I can’t say that because this has not been brought up for discussion officially. But as far as the motion is concerned, it hasn’t even gone into the first reading. I can’t really comment on that.
But even Barisan component parties like the MCA are opposing it.
As a coalition, every component party needs to do what it needs to do. The purpose of having a coalition is to agree to disagree, or disagree about agreeing. The coalition has always behaved in a democratic manner. The Prime Minister, who is president of the party, is continuously engaging for consensus. I’ve never seen him make unilateral decisions.
How are the new Parliamentary reforms like the second chamber and Minister’s Question Time working?
The difference between the oral questions and Minister’s Question Time is the timing of the notice for questions. The Minister’s Question Time only requires 24-hour notice so the most recent issues can be raised with the minister. MPs don’t have to wait for seven to 10 days because by that time, the issue will be outdated.
For the past few weeks since it began, all questions are mostly relevant. This is good because people would be more interested in monitoring Parliamentary debate since they deal with the latest issues.
What about the proposal to form a Parliamentary select committee to screen Bills before they are tabled?
We are working towards it in stages. Years ago, there were Parliamentary draftsmen who evaluated Bills and checked their language, including commas and full stops. So when the Government submits a Bill, they can still change it. But we don’t have this now and the Speaker feels we need it back. There are lawyers in the Attorney-General’s Chambers (AGC) but Parliament must have its own set of independent advisers to evaluate the quality of Bills.
What is the outcome of the Government-commissioned study on the death penalty in Malaysia?
The papers were submitted to the Cabinet, but the Cabinet wants the AGC to be present to explain them. We have to wait for their presentation. Once they are presented, only then can we make the results public.
What is the status of the proposed amendment to the Bankruptcy Act?
We hope to table it for first reading at this meeting and have the second reading at the next one. The prime minister does not want social guarantors to be declared bankrupt. These include guarantors for education grants. Another matter is that the bankruptcy papers should not be served using substituted service. If you want to declare someone bankrupt, you have to serve them the papers personally. How can you drop it at the last known address and just run?
The current period of five years to discharge a bankrupt is also considered very long. I think we have to be fair. We are looking at cutting it to three years.
Currently, creditors can also object to discharging bankrupts who have chronic diseases like cancer or HIV/AIDS despite the bankrupts going through the five-year period. We are looking into automatic discharge for these people after the required discharge period. Let the guy go lah. What else do you want, his soul?
Banks should have a tighter credit rating before they offer loans to people. That is my view.
What is the progress on the proposed Child Sexual Crimes Act?
We have to present the draft to the Cabinet together with the Women, Family and Community Development Ministry. We are looking into a few new variables, like the provision against sexual grooming. Currently, there is no law on it. If someone merely talks to you, it is currently not an offence. Rather than amend the Penal Code, the taskforce is looking into forming this new law.
We are looking into new offences, the issue of evidence, especially with children. Some perpetrators can be family members. So how do you expect children to talk and then go back to the same household? It will cause a whole chain reaction.
The taskforce also talked about the presumption of guilt. For example, for drug trafficking, if you have a certain amount of drugs, you are presumed a trafficker unless proven otherwise. So what is the yardstick for grooming? Those are new variables.
But the biggest criteria is not having the law but convicting the culprits. You can’t go to the normal court and expect the case to be settled in a year as there are so many other criminal cases. So the taskforce spoke about setting up a special court and settling cases within one year from the date of the offence. If the trial lasts for seven or eight years, the child victims, who may be teenagers by then, may forget, change their evidence or refuse to give evidence out of embarrassment.
Last but not least, there are standard protocols to be followed. We are also looking into the issue of hearsay evidence, or reports triggered by teachers, sport coaches or neighbours who may notice something unusual happening. The reports have to be balanced because for sexual crimes, some children may not be able to speak up for themselves.
When will the special court be set up?
We still need to get the Government to agree to that. The special court will have specialised judges and prosecutors, as child sexual crimes is a different ball game. The definition of sexual crimes is now above and beyond the existing one. It is not only rape but includes the insertion of objects, and boys can also be victims, and perpetrators could also be young offenders. There are a lot of variables.
What is the proposed penalty for child sexual grooming?
We are still looking into that. It can’t be announced. The faster the Bill is ready, the better but I’ll have to present it to the Cabinet first before I can say anything. I hope both Opposition and Barisan MPs will support it because it concerns children.
There is a cyber court in the Kuala Lumpur court complex. Are there plans to extend it nationwide?
Not yet. We are still evaluating it. Penang and Johor are the other states with a lot of cyber law cases.
What are your hopes for the Malaysian legal system in the future?
The world is changing, and it is changing very fast. It is getting smaller and people are communicating faster. The law must also adapt to these changes.
Technological changes will take the country in a certain direction. People are deemed to be more savvy and educated. Because of that, there must be a balance. You cannot be on this superhighway of tech-savviness and not be responsible or accountable.
If you want freedom of expression, you have to be responsible for it. You can’t simply write whatever you want and put your name on it. In laws on defamation, libel and slander, if you talk, you have to be responsible. Today, you can write something online and get away with it and you can claim it is a fake account. You can destroy families with social media, with online sexual grooming and so on.
Malaysians must be aware that the whole highway is changing and law cannot be like before. What happened 10 to 15 years ago is not happening now and we have to be ready for change.
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