Hong Kong’s Jimmy Lai doesn’t deny report that he spoke of sanctions with Pompeo

Former Hong Kong media boss Jimmy Lai Chee-ying resumes his testimony as the court continues to examine evidence regarding his national security charges for the fifth day at West Kowloon Court.

Lai, 76, had denied two charges of conspiring to collude with foreign forces under the 2020 national security law, as well as a third count of conspiracy to print and distribute seditious publications in breach of colonial-era legislation.

The founder of the now-defunct Apple Daily tabloid previously denied prosecutors’ allegations that he had attempted to influence foreign policies on Hong Kong or mainland China through his relationships with politicians and activists in the United States, Britain and Taiwan.

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He also denied allegations that he had pressured former top aides at the newspaper to create a sanctions list for Washington after the national security law was implemented in Hong Kong.

On Monday, the fourth day of Lai’s oral testimony, his lawyers turned their attention to Apple Daily’s online English-language edition.

He said he wanted the newspaper to attract overseas readers by publishing “negative” articles in English about the mainland, but denied he had intended to trigger Western sanctions.

He added that he felt a newspaper’s credibility was not built upon balanced coverage, but on reporting what it perceived to be the truth.

“The view of the yellow side is the view of Apple Daily,” he said, referring to the colour with which anti-government protesters and their supporters associated themselves during the 2019 social unrest.

Lai on Monday also said he had expressed his wish that US politicians, including former vice-president Mike Pence, subscribe to the Apple Daily mobile app.

But his right-hand man, Mark Simon, told him this was not possible as the White House had a strict security protocol, with officials required to use “blind accounts”.

The court last week also went over Lai’s commentaries published in Apple Daily, with the former media boss denying he had intended to incite hatred or illegal actions with those articles.

Looking back at the social unrest in 2019, Lai emphasised his opposition to violence and said he had advocated for resistance against Beijing through peaceful demonstrations.

While noting that some level of retaliation was “inevitable” when protesters faced “police violence”, he said he had called for radicals to exercise restraint and follow advice he credited to Cardinal Joseph Zen Ze-kiun, which was to have a team of leaders organise the movement.

The Post covers the latest updates from the trial below:

Lai does not deny report that he spoke of sanctions with Pompeo

Defence lawyer Steven Kwan Man-wai moves on to Lai’s meeting with former US secretary of state Mike Pompeo and former vice-president Mike Pence.

Lai tells the court that he had met Pence with his assistant Mark Simon, but with Pompeo alone, as Simon was kept outside the former secretary of state’s office during the meeting. No reporters had joined the trip, according to Lai.

Kwan shows Lai an article from Apple Daily that mentioned his meeting with Pompeo, to which the ex-mogul says he had only talked about the meeting to former lawmaker Albert Ho Chun-yan on the latter’s online talk show.

According to material presented earlier in the trial, an Apple Daily article reported Lai as having said on Ho’s talk show that he was asked by a “high ranking US official” what the United States could do regarding the anti-extradition bill movement in Hong Kong.

Lai was reported in the article as suggesting the United States sanction mainland Chinese and Hong Kong leaders who had suppressed the movement, as well as their children, family members and assets. He had raised the example of banning their children from studying in the US.

On Wednesday, Lai tells the court: “Actually I did not mention anything about sanction[s] during the meeting, if I remember correctly.”

The ex-mogul then says he could not recall what exactly he had told Ho during the talk show. But he does not deny what had been reported in the Apple Daily article, saying he had no reason to doubt its accuracy on both his meeting with Pompeo and the comments he had made on Ho’s show .

“If I said [during the talk show] the US should sanction those who suppressed HK demonstrators and they should know their action had consequences, if I said it here, I must have discussed it with Pompeo,” Lai says.

No editorial orders given during ‘lunchbox’ meetings: Lai

The court continues to hear Lai’s recollection of the “lunchbox” meetings held among Apple Daily’s senior executives.

Former Apple Daily publisher Cheung Kim-hung, who turned prosecution witness, earlier claimed that Lai would share his views on the situation at the time and his political stance when they were having their lunch.

But Lai disagrees on Wednesday, saying they were “mostly silent” when having their meals and if they talked, it would be “nothing important” and irrelevant to the business of the newspaper.

He says that after eating, they would commence the meeting, which would be conducted in the form of question and answer, followed by a discussion.

Lai stresses that no editorial instructions were given at the meetings, saying it was never necessary because “that is the core values of Hong Kong people” such as freedom, rule of law and democracy.

“It so happened that our editorial policies coincide [with] the values of Hong Kong people so that is why we did not need any editorial policy and that is why we never set down any editorial policy in words,” he adds.

He also disagrees that he would give directions on the “perspective of reporting” to reporters as “everyone has their styles of writing their thoughts”.

Defence lawyer Steven Kwan also presents a charter for the editorial office of his newspaper, which Lai says he has never seen before except in court.

More from South China Morning Post:

• Hong Kong’s Jimmy Lai wanted to lure foreign readers with ‘negative’ mainland China news
• Hong Kong’s Jimmy Lai failed to get Pence, Pompeo to subscribe to Apple Daily – as it happened
• Hong Kong’s Jimmy Lai sought US support for protests but denies inciting hatred

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